The NBA announced it will fine players for “flopping” starting next season. This bothers me. Flopping is part of the game. The only reason flopping is “out of control” is because people say it is. I disagree. When taking a charge, you fall over. It’s a charge. If you aren’t set or fall over too soon, it’s a block. It’s up to the refs to determine that. If the guy flops, simply don’t call a charge. I don’t see how you can fine someone for this. If he’s faking, just don’t call the foul. It’s that simple. Flopping is no different than an offensive player going up for a shot, having the ball striped then throwing his arms up in the air and screaming. Is he going to get fined for that? How about if on the way to the hoop, the player gets bumped and he falls down to sell the foul? Is that now finable too? How about when someone shoots a three, and falls down after someone jumps at him even though that contact, if there even is any, would never knock him down? Shooters do that all the time to draw the foul. Is that a fine worthy? Look, I understand that some people don’t like the flop. It’s annoying, it’s silly looking and it reminds people of soccer but it’s part of the game and it’s good defense (if they are in position). If you think a guy flops, just don’t call the charge. Call a block or let it go. A fine is ridiculous.
Here’s something that will get Graig going. I read a great article yesterday. It was about a major league player who has played more games at his position than anyone else, has more hits than all but one player at his position, as more Gold Gloves than all but one player at his position and has the best fielding percentage of anyone ever at his position. That player is, of course, Omar Vizquel. Last week he played his 2,584th career game at shortstop to set a new MLB record for most games played at short, breaking the previous record held by Luis Aparico. In the article by Jim Caple, he makes Omar’s Hall of Fame case. I’m here to back it up, as I have in the past. I know the arguments against; never a great hitter, never one of the best at the position. I’ll disagree with both of those. In the 90s and early 2000s, he was an average hitter but he always seemed to come through in the clutch. He had timely hits to start rallies, keep them alive or cap them off. I remember watching Indians games in those days when they needed a big hit and Omar would come up and I knew he’d come through. More times than not, he did. I was at one game, not sure the year, but the Indians were down two in the bottom of the ninth. The bases were loaded and Omar was up. What did he do? He bombed a Grand Slam to win the game that landed just 10 rows in front of where I was sitting. He was never a great hitter (best was .333 in 1999, which by the way is really good) but he was a clutch hitter.
As far as being the best at his position, yes and no. He couldn’t keep up with A-Rod and Jeter and Nomar at the plate, but those three couldn’t keep up with Omar in the field. Omar is the only one, besides Jeter still playing short. And I’d take Omar’s glove over Jeter’s any day. He is at worst the second best defensive short stop in the history of the game. His defense made up for his offensive. And it’s not like he was a liability at the plate. You can say negative things about his stats, you can say he was never the best at his position but if you watched him play, you’d know he’s a Hall of Famer. The plays he has made over the years are remarkable. San Francisco comes to Cleveland on June 24-26. I am making sure I get to one of those games. I want to see Omar play live one last time before he goes into the Hall of Fame.
Fratello
You had me nodding my head in agreement over the flop half of this post. Then you went all insane. My argument, and I blogged about this very topic a year or so ago:
A career .274 hitter
A career .340 OBP
Has scored 100 runs in a season twice
Has hit .300 once – ONE FUCKING TIME
Averages 48 RBI per season
Averages 21 SB per season
Not even close to 3000 hits which you would think he could get with that many games under his belt.
I don’t give a fuck about gold gloves and fielding percentage, that’s one tool. He’s merely average to awful at every other tool that makes a great player. The Hall of Fame is for the great, not the good. Omar isn’t getting in just based on his glove. Hell, Jim Kaat has 16 gold gloves and won over 200 games and he hasn’t even come close yet.
Sorry, but Albert Belle has a better chance of getting in than Omar. What is the one thing that they say about the HoF: you have to dominate your position for an extended stretch of time. Name one time when Omar did that?
What a great post. It is retarded to fine players from flopping. They are trying to draw a foul and help their team win. How is that a finable offense? As you said offensive players flop too.
As for Omar, I can sort of see both sides to this arguement. On one hand, his offensive numbers don’t jump out at you, although he showed huge improvements over the years offensively and he was as clutch as they come. He also has 2600 hits, not to shabby. But how can you ignore his defense? Omar has a better fielding percentage and was a better hitter than supposedly the best shortstop in history, Ozzie Smith. No way Albert Belle has a better chance. He might be as deserving, but his problems with the media have caused him to not be even close on his first few tries. Above all he played the game the right way, played the most demanding position on the field for 20 years, put decent offensive numbers, was the best defensive shortstop in history, and was never under suspicion of steroids in the steroid era.
I read Caple’s article and he pointed out that Omar’s career has gone unnoticed, which is a great point. He played the bulk of his great years in Cleveland which really hurt him. As we all know if you don’t play in New York or Boston you don’t exist. If Omar would have played in bigger market the view on him would be different. Bottom line he is Hall of Famer. Maybe not first ballot, but he will get there. Sorry for the long post, but I feel very strongly about this issue.
I think that catchers would disagree with your remark that SS is the most demanding position.
You can’t compare Ozzie and Omar because Ozzie actually DID dominate his position for years. Granted, he had no competition around the league, but that domination is why he got in. Put Ozzie in today’s game today’s SS and he’s not a HOFer. Tough fucking luck, Omar played at the wrong time.
Spare me the clutch crap. David Cone was as clutch as a pitcher as you could find and no one is talking about him in the HOF. If he was so clutch, where are his rings???
For a 5-6 year stretch, no hitter was feared more than Belle.
I can’t believe Graig is giving love to Belle. He was the most dominate hitter in the 90s. I think he had more doubles and RBIs than anyone else in that 10 years (I could be wrong but I think I heard that before). He could, and should be a Hall of Famer too. He will have a tough time though because of his rep and because injury made him retire way to early.
I don’t know how you can say defense doesn’t mean anything. Golden Gloves and fielding percentage mean a lot. To win 11 GG and be the best fielder in the history of the game at the most difficult position (catch is tough too but they don’t have to make nearly as many plays, they just have bad knees) says a lot about the player you are. I dominated the field for 20 years. Just because he didn’t hit 30 home runs doesn’t mean he wasn’t one of the best short stops to play. Anyone who can be the best in the field for that long is something special, and is, without a doubt, one of the best and a Hall of Famer.
Graig, you are arguing for Vizquel not being allowed into some imaginary uber-Hall of Fame that has about 30 people in it. Seriously, open your eyes and actually look at the guys who are in the Hall. Dominant players like Rick Ferrell and Rabbit Marranville and Pie Traynor. If Omar makes the Hall, he won’t be the worst player there. He won’t be the worst SS there, either.
Now I’d agree he isn’t a first ballot guy, he’s not a guy who should get 95% of the vote, but he’s a guy who should eventually make the Hall. Albert Belle, by the way, would have to be elected in by the Veteran’s Committee, and since most of his peers seem to be indifferent towards him at best I doubt that ever happens. Did he have a better peak than Vizquel? Well, duh. A lot better. But he only played in what, 1500 career games? About 1,000 less than Vizquel? Woody Allen said that 90% of success is just showing up, and Vizquel showed up a lot more than Belle did. Blew out his hip and never played a game after Age 33. Longevity is a big deal to HoF voters, it’s the reason why Aparicio made the Hall and it’s the reason why Vizquel will join him one day.
Belle was the most feared hitter for a 5-6 year stretch? Maybe, but he wasn’t the *best* hitter during that period.
Belle led his league in OPS+ once. One freakin’ time. Less than Travis Hafner. Less than Don Mattingly. You could argue that Belle was the best offensive player in the league in 1995 as well, but that’s it; he wasn’t in 1993 (Thomas was better) he wasn’t in 1994 (Thomas was better again), he wasn’t in 1996 (McGwire and a few others were better), and he damn sure wasn’t in 1997 (a ton of guys were better).
Belle blew out his hip by 33 and never played again. No one feels sorry for him because he’s a jerk and a criminal (stalker, if you’re wondering).
He was never one of the 5 best shortstops in the game in any given year. You guys are insane. Put your own biases aside. The guy is a career loser and that means a lot.
I don’t think we are the one’s with the bias. Just becuse you don’t like the guy doesn’t mean he isn’t a hall of famer. He turned out to be a better than Nomar, Tejada is a juicer and A-Rod is going to have the bulk of his career as a 3B, so looking back I would argue the top 5 shortstops point. So that basically leaves Jeter and Omar from that era. Jeter is a great player and a sure fire hall of famer, but to dismiss Omar so easily is showing your strong dislike of him. Your judgement is clouded in hatred.
Well put Damman. We aren’t the ones looking at this objectively. Omar was a top five shortstop in his prime. Hell, he is still the best defensive SS. How you can say he wasn’t one of the top five short stops when he won 9 straight Gold Gloves from 1993-2001 (with three All-star games) and another in two GG’s in 05 and 06 is beyond me. I don’t know how you can’t appreciate what he’s done.
One tool players aren’t hall of famers. I don’t hate Omar the player, I hate Omar the demigod that Indians fans have built him up to be.
You can’t take Nomar, A-Rod, and Tejada out of the mix as 90′s SS because that is what they were. And they were great then. Who cares what they are doing now, in Omar’s “glory” days, they were all significantly better.
Longevity only mattered for one person and that was Ripken.
ONE TOOL PLAYER. God damn you guys are idiots. There is a reason why the baseball HOF is the only one that really matters and that is because you have to be great to get in. And that’s why Omar will never be invited.
So we obviously are never going to convince the other side to agree with us, either way. So let’s just make a bet Graig. You name the price. I’ll take Omar getting in the Hall.
The one thing you are forgetting is the voters for the HOF are mostly old school writers. The kind that love the way Omar plays the game and love the defensive aspect of it.
OK, if I’m still alive and somehow Omar is allowed to go into the Hall, I will kill myself. I wouldn’t want to live in a world where he is a Hall of Famer anyway.